Hi Daniele! Thanks so much for doing this with us! You’re the export manager for La Maison & Velier (LM&V) – indisputably one of (if not) the largest influential force in the rum world. You’ve played a big part in bringing groundbreaking rums to the world, from Jamaica’s Hampdens to Haiti’s Clairins.

In this interview, we would love to find out more about how you got into rums, what rums mean to you, what motivates you, your work with Velier and then LM&V, and what you see in the not-so-distant future where it comes to the rum the world will be drinking.

Let's get started!

Find Daniele Biondi: Instagram

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Daniele Biondi (DB): I started loving rum more than 20 years ago! I was a 20-ish year old bartender in Milan; very curious about rums, trying to understand its diversity. The Internet was the slow 56k stuff, and brands’ websites were prehistoric, and the only book about it was Dave Broom’s RUM.

In Italy, like everywhere else, the market for rum was based on what was mainstream only. Zacapa was not existing. In the early 2000's, Velier was actually the only, still small then, company exploring different styles and importing lots of exciting artisanal brands. This made the Italian market surely the widest in terms of diversity, in Europe (and maybe in the world, without exaggeration).

In 2003, I became the director of a cool bar, and quickly I turned it in a rum spot; the first in the area, with a hundred of rums or so. I spent four years there pouring and introducing rums and conducting tastings for thousands of customers.

Daniele was an early mover in rums in Europe, kickstarting several key resources for rum lovers.

"We created a new hype on rum, based on authenticity and quality, through hundreds of deep educational sessions."

In 2007, I created the first rum blog in Italy (one of only two in Europe), the rumclub.org editorial platform, ‘rum-pedia’ and also the rum lovers’ forum.  Do you remember forums?? Before social media! I started travelling all over Italy, leading rum tastings and connecting with many people and distributors in Europe, including Velier. I remember lots of Caroni's and old Demerara vertical tastings, now extremely rare and unthinkable to open for random public tastings.

In 2008, the WIRSPA (West Indies Rum & Spirits Producers Association) offered me a job as country manager for the global campaign Authentic Caribbean Rum, and so I started travelling all over the Caribbean…and have never stopped!

In 2010, I finally joined Velier. If you love rum in Italy, that’s the right place to work! As manager of the rum category including 30 brands, and together with Luca Gargano, I have also travelled all over exploring and selecting rums,  discovered Clairin in Haiti, helped to create the Hampden brand, Habitation Velier, co-wrote the book Atlas du Rhum, boosted the rum collectors trend, managed two rum retails and innumerable other projects.

Velier started off as a small store in Genoa but has since become a force in the rum world.

We created a new hype on rum, based on authenticity and quality, through hundreds of deep educational sessions.

In 2017, Velier and LMDW created the joint venture LM&V and I then switched to the new company, building global sales for 20 brands now present in 50 countries. And I keep travelling all over educating on the rum category. What’s next? 😉

88B: What do you love most about rums beyond any other drinks/spirits category?

If someone has not yet tried rum, what is your best reason to convince them to try it?

DB: I love the diversity of a spirit that is definitely the most important in the world: surely a global one, produced all over the world in several different ways; industrial and ancestral, and strictly related to the history of modern civilisations. Unaged or aged, enjoyed in mixology or sipping, incredibly authentic or ruthlessly commercial. The simple word ‘rum’ cannot even describe itself, and it’s this uncatchable spirit the I love. 

To convince someone to try it, I would say that there’s no reason not to try rum, it’s so diverse that surely by searching, well, anybody will find their favorite one! It can be a never ending research, as in my case! 

It is said that good rums are only reachable by jeep!

"The simple word ‘rum’ cannot even describe itself, and it’s this uncatchable spirit the I love."

88B: What motivates you to keep discovering and bringing new rum expressions? Do you ever think of trying your hand at being a distiller yourself?

DB: I think we are still at the beginning, that’s why I want keep exploring and discovering. Even the Caribbean region is not 100% understood yet. South America is full of sugar cane, as well as Mexico. Not to mention Africa and surely Asia where sugar cane ‘was born’, and is still distilled in many countries in different styles that we still don’t know. I think that local spirits are a great way to understand people cultures - so extremely interesting, not only to taste!

Me as a distiller? Certainly in the next life! I think it is very fascinating but it needs a technical skill that I don’t have. And also it’s a completely different point of view on spirits - I think I more love to understand the diversity of many [rums] than to focus on my singular rum. Also I know some of the greatest distillers and it’s crazy difficult to do what they do!

88B: There’s been a stark move by rum distilleries to producing high ester rums that are also growing in popularity, notable examples are Hampden’s DOK mark which sits at the export limit.

Yet, high ester rums were once considered as flavoring and not for drinking on its own, what is your take on that and how has that evolved with time?

DB: High esters rums became ‘trendy’ in recent years, mainly due to the work of Velier. Velier, and Luca Gargano himself, are enough of a visionary, and are incredibly passionate and also a bit crazy, to have the intuition that rum connoisseurs would love this style of high ester rums. To understand the heritage and the history of rum, Velier started twenty years ago the trend of high proof rums, tropical aged rums, ancestral and wild fermented rums and now high ester ones, in a coherence that is just the result of our passion and our point of view on rum.

These are not really new productions - let’s say that there’s a new interest on old production.

At the same time there are producers that started focusing more than before on this style, such as Savanna or others exploring different way of fermenting and playing with wild yeasts; like the latest release by Richard Seale of Foursquare, the LFT. The future can be in the past! 

An increasingly popular move into high ester rums is afoot.

"[On high ester rums]... These are not really new productions - let’s say that there’s a new interest on old production."

88B: Where do you see this trend going and what lies beyond high ester rums?

DB: As mentioned previously, high ester rums were historically produced for flavoring, not for drinking neat.

Actually drinking neat rums with more than 1000 gr/HLAP of esters are considered extremely concentrated and not pleasant for easy drinking.

But surely it is an interesting exercise to understand rum. They stimulate the curiosity of spirits lovers, and maybe this curiosity is becoming more important than the taste itself. But the main misunderstanding is to consider “the highest, the best” - definitely a mistake. The same goes for age statements; “the oldest, the best” - another dangerous nonsense in spirits.

The nature itself of numbers can be tricky! Geeky is tricky! 😉 The secret in spirits, and not just, is always in the balance. Hopefully when this trend has become more mature, people will restart drinking their favorite balance rather than chasing numbers.

88B: In the past, rum distilleries produced various marks to be used in a blend, yet these days, there’s a focus on bottling and showcasing single mark expressions.

Do you think there is still a world for blended rums and do you personally prefer blended rums from a single distillery or single mark expressions?

DB: Blending has always been a process to reach that balance, as well as consistency, and also a way of cost management by distillers. But surely trying to ‘deconstruct’ blends and search for the single formulas is very interesting as well. Single expressions are more expensive to produce since they don’t benefit from the dynamics of scale. Their higher costs, and final prices, bring a perception of higher quality which, again, can be misleading.

In the whisky category, historically ahead of the rum category, a renaissance of great blended whiskies from different distilleries, has already started. Think Compass Box, for example.

"Blending has always been a process to reach that balance... I think blended rums can be a possible future for rum, especially the unaged versions..."

For rum it is way more difficult since distilleries of the same countries normally compete and distilleries from different islands don’t normally speak to each other. But LM&V, with the Veritas Blended rum, proposed the first blend of [rum from] different islands made by Caribbean producers. In this sense, Veritas is one of the world’s most innovative rums - I hope others will follow.

I think blended rums can be a possible future for rum, especially the unaged versions, whose styles are too diverse, and blends would achieve more balance. Imagine a daiquiri; today it can be too light or too heavy, that’s why Veritas was born.

88B: More recently, Hampden produced a new, very unique mark, the HES mark, that used brown sugar and vinasse, rather than molasses, many fans are wondering what prompted that move, and is this going to become a growing trend?

HES mark was a nice exercise, but unfortunately a one-off, done more as an experiment. Distilleries often experiment with new processes and formulas. We just [helped] shed a light on it by bottling it, but it’s a pretty common practice for distillers. But don’t worry, others stuff will happen.

88B: Increasingly there’s been more spotlight by LM&V on white rums, more recently from Takamaka, Papa Rouyo, even Foursquare’s LFT, yet some fans continue to believe that unaged rums cannot attain the quality of aged rums. Where do you stand on that? Do you think some rums are better left unaged?

DB: A complete answer would deserve a book! I personally started ten years ago, speaking about unaged rums, yet actually the topic is still new. Spirits lovers have been influenced too much by aged spirits, and therefore think that they are better than unaged [spirits] - great nonsense. Also the definition of ‘white’ didn’t help since most consumers think that white and dark are different stuff - like a white wine and a red wine!

An unaged rum is the same as its aged version, it’s the base of it! So a great white will – hopefully – be a great aged [rum]; a bad white will surely be a bad aged [rum]. Ageing doesn’t add quality to spirits, just evolves it. This simple concept should be a new starting point to approach to spirits. Only through the unaged version can we understand the style and the quality of a distiller, so [in that sense] they are much more ‘didactic’ than aged [spirits]. Consider also that all these diverse rums are then aged mainly in the same wood and in the same climate, where diversity can only be flattened!

Haiti's Clairins showcased its debut as "white" or unaged rums to great excitement and positive reviews.

"Ageing doesn’t add quality to spirits, just evolves it. This simple concept should be a new starting point to approach to spirits."

Another point of view on that - most agave spirits express better unaged, as well as fruit spirits. Sugarcane should be seen as a fruit, so the most is expressed in the great spirit [unaged]; the most expression comes when that spirits isn't ‘covered’ by woody notes. On the contrary in fact, all those rums that are so light that they are considered ‘neutral’, at the most, will still be ‘neutral’ when aged, that’s why many [producers] unfortunately use additives. I think that some of these rum producers even prefer not to commercialize the unaged version, which explains many things…

88B: Recently, Velier released the Hampden Pagos, the first rum to enjoy complete aging in ex-Sherry casks. This was quite a big hit!

What do you think Sherry cask ageing brings to rums, what rums do you think suit such ageing best and how big a role do you think this will play in rums in the future?

DB: Hampden Pagos is definitely another innovative rum! But it was Hampden Estate releasing it, not Velier; this was the official bottling. Even if, yes, unsurprisingly inspired by Luca. A high quality real Sherry cask (a new indication dated back to 2015 by the Consejo Regulador of the Denomination of Origin “Jerez-Xérès-Sherry”) brings a completely new flavor profile to rum.

An incredibly bold move by Hampden to fully mature its rums in Sherry casks - any lighter a rum would have been dominated. 

Especially the high quality Sherry butts that LM&V and Hampden Estate bought from Bodegas Lustau for Pagos. In a relatively short time these casks gave to Hampden an incredible evolution: two strong identities coexisting in a fascinating way! The intensity of Hampden evolved perfectly. Maybe with a light rum the Sherry would have been too dominant. In Hampden’s future you will see other Pagos, since this great result achieved made us continue to age and experiment [using Sherry casks]. Hampden Estate will launch a new release in 2023, and other will follow. It would be interesting to see other producers ageing [their rums] completely in Sherry, but it’s not so easy to get real Sherry casks, and it is not easy to ship to the Caribbean and plan a dedicated ageing programme. Let’s hope for the future!

88B: We know that Velier has gotten more ex-Sherry barrels from Domecq, and Luca has indicated that the team will focus more on Oloroso rather than PX. Could you tell us more about what Velier has in the works with the Sherry casks acquired?

DB: You guys know everything! 😉 Actually the evolution in Oloroso has been more interesting than PX. In my opinion it’s due to the fact that the identity of Hampden shouldn’t be ‘covered’ by the sweeter note of PX. The Oloroso expresses more the character of the rum. The last casks purchased as you mentioned are from Solera's used up until 30 years, different types, mainly Oloroso, and now Hampden is experimenting again with different casks ageing the different marks.

8 Marks of Hampden Pagos, perhaps?

So the idea is to release in the next future other Pagos - a Sherry ‘line’ in parallel with usual ex-bourbon casks. It’s very complex and very fascinating to see how they evolve fast and often unpredictably: casks are all different and it’s important to monitor the evolution month by month. That’s why I have on my desk right now around a hundred samples to try! I hope to have a better answer after the tasting!   

"As we said, we are still at the beginning and I hope it’s gonna be the ‘next big thing’ - searching again for the future in these traditions."

88B: In a recent interview with Whisky Mag France, Luca mentioned that the team is looking at two producers in Ecuador, and still in the process of screening producers in Peru and Colombia – can you shed more light on Velier’s plans in South America? Are Spanish-style rums the next big thing we’re all drinking?

DB: Definitely in Latin American countries there is not only the so-called ‘Spanish’/light style. Out from the industries, people have distilled ever since even in ancestral ways.

Ecuador has been our first focus there - Luca, together with local friend and partner, conducted deep research, and we tried many sugarcane spirits from different villages around Guayaquil. We are going to release something soon, but still top secret information!

Capo Verde may not call its cane spirit "rum", but "Grogue" is just fine.

Also in Peru, Colombia, together with Mexico or Brazil, there are thousands of small producers of sugarcane spirits under names like ‘Puro’, ‘Viche’, or Aguardiente. With Clairins in Haiti, Grogue in Capo Verde, and like most of the artisanal Cachaças (also called "Pinga", "Caipira", and dozens of other ways), they have in common the ability to express their terroirs - often fermented with their [local] airborne yeasts, and distilled using ancestral processes. And there are innumerable cultural names for innumerable juices.

They involve topics beyond - the culture of the people producing it, as well as a genuine approach to their natural surroundings, ultra-local endemic raw materials, natural yeasts and traditional ancient processes. This biodiversity is enormous and unknown. As we said, we are still at the beginning and I hope it’s gonna be the ‘next big thing’ - searching again for the future in these traditions.

Having said that, Africa in on the radar as well!  

88B: Aside from some of these plans Velier has in the works, what are the new developments or trends in the rum world that you are most excited about?

DB: Velier and LM&V are definitely exploring most of these trends. As someone personally a part of this, I would emphasise [our goals] - giving value to artisanal distilleries and pot still productions, ancestral producers in various countries, focusing on tropical aged vs. continental aged, help to push on ‘no sweetened’ rums, supporting GIs, sharing classifications…it is a mix of trends!

Driven by passion to research [rums]. And doing all things through hundreds of releases of great rums, with some of the highest ratings, most of them co-bottlings with distilleries, and blends of them!

Daniele is part of an incredibly passionate team of rums lovers who have brought to rums transparency that has propelled it forward.   

Hopefully a next trend can be to focus more on the Caribbean producers than IBs, and products giving back value to distilleries. This would bring more transparency by definition. Unaged rums [will hopefully] follow the same trend - producer-oriented.

So again, an eye on fermentations, distillations, trends for geeks (rum lovers!)…who else are we? These are trend that excite me the most.

88B: Currently, Velier’s efforts in bringing new spirits to the world have focused on produce from the Caribbeans, and as mentioned, it seems like the team is now looking at South America.

Would Velier consider looking more closely into Asian spirits such as Baijiu (Sorghum Liquor popular in China)?

DB: Not only Caribbean and South America! We explored the Indian Ocean around eight years ago, bringing to Europe small brands from Thailand, Australia, Japan, United States, always getting samples from all over the world from people recognizing our love for exploring. Last one was a passionate guy from Israel spontaneously fermenting local sugar cane… We do also love to explore the roots of spirits, but the time, you know, is limited.

Baijiu's centuries of tradition and heritage seems to have what it takes to be the next big thing. (Image Source: Ming River)

Regarding Baijiu, we just started importing Ming River and one of our colleagues just visited an ancient distillery in Sichuan and came back excited. Baijiu can definitely be big in the future.

88B: Rum secondary prices have gone through the roof as the category has grown significantly over the last 10 years, in no small part due to Velier’s work to introduce more transparency and quality to rums. When Velier releases a bottle, it immediately becomes a collectible, which is unfortunate as people then do not enjoy it as much.

What are your feelings toward this double-edged sword where rums are more popular than ever before but are also therefore often collected rather than enjoyed?

DB: Another book to write about! We do love enjoying rum and we love when people enjoy our rums, that is actually what we do it for!

In the last several years, rum took off fast to new consumers who valued highly authenticity and the trends mentioned above. I think that Velier releases are around 80% of the top-100 on rumauctioneer.com. So, on one hand we are very happy and proud that connoisseurs are giving credit to these important variables, like the real deep research we do and the rums aged in its official warehouses.

"...today most collectors think that anything we put in the Caroni-shaped bottle is going to be crazy high [in future prices], and they don’t even try the rum. On the contrary, the Habitation Velier ‘shape’-d bottles which really represents the ultimate range ever done, has less hype!"

The VSGB bottlings are not only incredibly cute but offer members a chance to try Velier's limited releases. Now, how do I get in? (Image Source: @Weixiang_Liu on IG)

On the other hand collecting definitely touches a different feeling for people, so speculation is a tricky game. To avoid this, Luca created the VSGB members group on Facebook, where a thousand rum lovers can get one 10cl bottle of all Velier’s limited releases, so at least everybody can easily try [our] rums!

What I can suggest to collectors is that looking long term rather than short-term as to what is happening now, rum values will continue to grow for their intrinsic qualities, not for ‘naif’ trends or iconic packaging. I'll give you an example: today most collectors think that anything we put in the Caroni-shaped bottle is going to be crazy high [in future prices], and they don’t even try the rum. On the contrary, the Habitation Velier ‘shape’-d bottles which really represents the ultimate range ever done, has less hype!

But trust me, all real collectors know very well their rums!

Habitation Velier represents an incredible range of rums that explores a whole breadth of diversity rum has to offer. (Image Source: Lone Caner)

88B: Your work with Velier must have taken you on so many adventures, could you recount to us a particularly fond memory you’ve had? What has been some of the biggest personal highlights for you so far?

DB: I think that everything related to Clairin [has been a highlight] - best product overall in my opinion. All memories of Haiti, all our trips there, with the most beautiful people, the culture, the nature, really important for me. As soon as I’ll have chance to meet 88 Bamboo in a tasting 😉 I’ll tell you the very first day with Luca there, unbelievable and unforgettable! Now Haiti is in a very difficult moment, let’s hope they will live better soon.

A young man carting locally harvested sugarcane on the way to make small batch Clairin. (Image Source: Wine Enthusiast Magazine)

"I think that everything related to Clairin [has been a highlight] - best product overall in my opinion. All memories of Haiti, all our trips there, with the most beautiful people, the culture, the nature, really important for me."

88B: Has there been any bottling or distribution opportunity that was the one that got away and you wish Velier had managed to see through?

DB: Nice question - at the risk of being too Velier-oriented, I’d say that for the aged rum category, I really believe in tropical ageing and basically we are the only company doing them, working directly with distilleries. This is crucial to understand: Velier is the only company in the world doing co-bottlings in partnership with distilleries, and not independent bottlings.

It’s not only a difference of ageing but it’s a matter of research, authenticity, and relationship with the Caribbean people, giving them, as protagonist, the highest value. It is very different from IB’s. And this should be of value also for unaged rums - we are amongst the unique, doing bottlings of fresh juice directly with distilleries. But now other companies are exploring more the world and I hope in the future to be envious of others’ juices… 

Daniele with Michel Sajous, the man behind Clairin Sajous himself.

88B: What are the three rums you’re enjoying most right now?

DB: Clairin Sajous from Haiti, River Antoine from Grenada, Neisson Blanc Bio!

You know what to do if you want to get on Daniele's good books! (Image Source: Maeba Restaurant)

88B: If you could share a pour of rum with anyone, who would it be and what rum would you choose?

The old Demerara Enmore 1995 I’ve selected with Luca in Guyana back in 2010, one of my favorite ever!

Thank you for that great interview Daniele! It's wonderful to follow along your passion and it certainly sounds like a dream come through for a rum geek to go from rum writer to now helping expand the vocabulary of rum.

We really love your opinions and insights on some of the biggest trends today, and we're excited from the clues you've dropped on what to expect! From one rum lover to another, thank you for making sure my glass is always filled with exciting, diverse and tasty rums! 

Find Daniele Biondi: Instagram

Find Velier (we don't need to tell you twice!): Instagram | Facebook | Website 

La Maison & Velier: Instagram | Facebook

Images courtesy of Daniele Biondi, Velier & LM&V.

Kanpai!

@111hotpot